You make very good points.I myself am guilty of jumping the gun tearing bike components down that didnt need to be tore down,if i would have just sat back and thought about it i would have saved myself a big headache.Murry you seem to be the highly thought of go to guys on this forum so im sure you hear this kind of stuff more than others,but you have to realize most people love to tinker i think its a human thing.LOL,but your correct tinkering is fine just know your limits.Look listen and learn and expant your limits and soon no job will be to big and you will know your bike inside and out.

 

Nicely put

Thats all

 

I agree mostly.
I really think the noobs should do lots more reading (do your homework) before you start asking lots of questions that have been asked and answered before.
The bikes that sell around here for less than maybe $2,000 are project bikes. Don't buy a $500 special and think you are going riding right away.
These bikes are amazingly well designed and built and are relatively easy to work on (for me) but I've been repairing my own stuff for about 50 years now. I may have more experience and tools than the average enthusiast.
If you are not sure you have the skills, find someone who does and expect to compensate them for their time.
I caught some crap for flaming on a noob that put no effort into resolving his own problems before dumping on this forum so maybe I'm a little sensitive but I'll always help someone who is making an honest effort and maybe got stuck.
The FSM is a wonderful thing. Use it!
Son & I did 3,000+ miles of high speed touring on my bikes last year, neither of which had received much in the way of serious prep and we had no trouble at all, not even a tip over.
Know your iron, do your homework & maintenance and Life will be good.
Murry and I don't need any more half done projects in our garages (or at least, I don't)

 

When I joined this forum I had just got my first CX500C and since then have rebuilt: one CX500, one GL500, one GL650I, one CB700SC, and one CB750 engine, along with fixing all the other non-engine stuff on those bikes. How? With no experience? First off I like to tinker with stuff, probably the most important factor. But also, not being afraid to ask dumb questions and/or make dumb suggestions. And, being courteous to those helping me and not bugging them more than necessary. And, the FSM!!!! And, being willing to spend on some tools and testing equipment. Right now, after having done all that, I believe I can do anything. Forums are truly a miracle of technology in that you have the world's foremost experts on any given machine tripping over each other to answer your questions. If this modern miracle were not a reality, it would be in some science fiction book somewhere.

 

Thank You Murray

Wish I had said that.

I like riding what the point in getting a bike just to rip it up.

Pay hundreds if not thousands run out of money.

Guy I got my GL500's from was selling for a friend.

Before I found out about them several "Projects and parts bikes"

"Over a ton of metal sold by the pound" 3 rollers

Because the PO had to leave them.

We took home stacked higher than the cab.

2 complete bikes and 5 to 600 lbs of the "Best stuff" that was saved.

We looked like the Beverly Hillbillies going home. $600.

He didn't know or care what went just that all the blocks looked the same.

Can't tell you how many cheap or free "got in over my head" rescues I've done

It started in summer after my 6th grade 1963.

The only" human nature is that we destroy the things we intend to save"

Sometimes.

Our projects Road To Hell is Paved with Good Intention.

 

I see this same thing on the ATV forums I frequent

one has the "use the search function - not this again" attitude, it also has a core group that frowns on newbies asking dumb questions and openly flames them for it.
it's membership/participation suffers from it bad, yet it's owner is too busy participating in the flaming to see the $ going down the drain

the forum I am staff on, is one of those with veteren members tripping over each other to answer any and all questions, no matter how dumb or even if it was the same question just asked an hour ago,
we are told almost daily that it is the best ATV forum out there.

remember....we all started at the bottom and asked those same dumb questions, if someone didn't answer them, we'd have bailed out of that forum and found somewhere that did want to help and participate.

just my .02

 

Agreed! I am getting to that age where 'If it aint broke, don't "fix" it, but definitely maintain it'. Most of the things that really need fixing on an old bike are from lack of maintenance or just sitting, rarely needing the engine torn apart. There is absolutely no reason to tear a good running engine apart unless you plan on racing it and while I know these bikes are sacred on this board, it would be the last bike I would build for racing.

Of course if some fool wants to separate from his money at least you gave him heads up so you shouldn't feel too guilty Murry!

 

I'm a hybrid of Murray's statement.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it, but . . . if you have to drop the engine and take the back cover off (for any reason), and you have more than 20k miles on the engine, Triple or Quadruple Bypass while you are in there so you never have to f*** with it again.

 

Thanks murrayf for this very good professional advice . I am a rookie who also believes : " if it is not broken, do not (try to) mend it "

 

Well said Murray. I too am from the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" school, but maintain the hell out of it. Now, if you ever do have to go into the innards I also believe that that is the time to get ambitious and do it up right because you've got it opened up anyway.

As for the noobs, let's encourage them to ask questions no matter how stupid they may seem to be. I always say that there is no such thing as a stupid question just people who are too stupid to ask in the first place. Remember that we were all noobs at one time.

 

Where possible test.... not tear to bits.

 

I try not to flame for dumb questions....some times it could be taken as flaming

when the question seems creatively intentionally stupid.

Murray goes out of his way to answer dumb questions daily.

The point is to try and save those newbee's from following advice that could

lead to unnessay work and expense.

It seems that every time a new to this forum what should I do ?

Someone says first thing is strip it down pull the engine rip it apart and start fresh.

I have had newbee's PM me and say its too confuseing.

Is that really what I should do ?

How many times has someone said first do a compression test and a leak down.

The fact is compression tests and leak down tests are to locate and determine

why an engine is exhibiting a problem. They are diagnostic tools.

An engine may show low compression for reasons other than wear.

Example a CX500 with 19000mi of miles sit six years do a compression test

It will read low so that means..........................NOTHING.

For some reason some are convinced low compression means....OVERHAUL

Some say you will want to do a triple bypass and put on electric fan and Ignitec.

The last thing I want to do is pull an engine when its unnecessary.

I could pay license, insurance,all necessary repairs a tank of gas

and lunch up at the old cafe at the top of the mountain.

So lets all get on the same page don't just throw out what we would do.

There is room for opinion and conjecture teasing jokes etc....

But fact is.

Most questions have a right answer and answers that sound right to a newbee.

Lets be known for being a place to get the right answer not just a chat room

where there are so many opinions and miss information tossed about

that it confuses rather than clarifies.

 

Considering these engines are good for well over 100K miles, it boggles the mind that some feel the need to tear them down at 20K miles. They're far more durable than most car engines from back then.
As mentioned, many get pulled apart without a hope of ever being put back together. I'd bet many are from the same group of guys who get emotional over brand of oil and 10% ethanol. By the time they read all the internet BS and myths, they get a generic definition in their mind that ---> motorcycle = AMF era Harley. The type of guy who couldn't properly do a valve adjustment if his life depended on it is now tearing down an engine for a complete overhaul. :stupid:

 

6 years ago my bike had 120 PSI compression per side. Last year it had 170. I've not had the heads off.

 

Never had to tear one down never will unless it needs it maintain and ride most Hondas are bullet proof.

 

What is a FORUM?

I'm sure you've all been waiting for, the NOOB, from Utah, to chime in....

What is the purpose of a Forum?

This is the first forum that I've been a member of, and can't say enough good things about it. I can also say that I have been reluctant as HELL to post anything here. I've learned that you're better off taking a week or two, to figure out your issue, rather than posting the same question that litters the search bar. Been there. Done that. Stayed away from questions for a while.
This morning as I was typing an email to Murray, I thought, "screw it, I'll just call him". That way he can ask me any question he needed to know, and be done with it.

Once I found out about Murray's carb kit, I bought one.
Quickest "jump start" to my project that I can think of.
Since it's been installed.... It was clear to me, what the hype of the CX500 was all about.
Shortly after carbs were installed, if I didn't turn off the fuel it would leak from the "pink tube"(as Murray called it). My entire garage smelled CRAZY ripe of petrol.
So... I was calling to see if Murray could help me, or if I needed to park the bike in an anti combustion chamber. He talked me through the issue with great care and knowledge.
(I knew he would) Murray was a great help. While I had him on the line, I wanted to ask him what he would charge me to go through my engine.

Is there any one on the forum that wouldn't love to give your bike to Murray, for even an hours worth of his undivided attention?

If you've ever had the privilege to chat with Murray, (without a retainer fee) he's got centuries of stories to go along with every question you ask. THIS IS WHY I CALLED HIM! All I needed, was a quick answer to my carb leak.

My bike is a tail light away from being street legal, and good to go for the summer. I want to take my time over the summer, to make sure everything is good to go, before I put the cherry on top. Next winter I plan on a complete repaint/powder coat/disassembly.

I plan on riding this bike all summer in the current condition. For the very reason " IF IT'S NOT BROKE, DON'T FIX IT". Who knows WTF it will do with a 40 mile commute on I-15, every day for work? Last summer, I rode to work a dozen times or so with no problems.

"If you're going to do it, do it right".

If I can dismantle the bike next winter, why not have the motor gone through before it's put back together? I value his opinion, so I asked the question.



He made sense to it all, and I got off the phone with him, thinking SWEET! maybe I don't need to go the distance.


It may be hard for some of the senior members to see the confusion that a lot of new members have, once they've scoured the Forum. I for one have spent a ton of time on here, with numerous searches. I don't want to produce a shitty finished product. This bike is as old as I am, and typically that means it needs some work.

Murray even made the comment to me, " These motors are bomb proof. A lot of guy's on the forum post a bunch stuff, when they haven't even completed a triple bypass. They still have their motor in pieces.

I have to admit... This thread threw me for a loop. I had to step back before jumping.

If I read correctly... Murray's, and a lot of your comments are referring to a bigger issue than my phone call.

Maybe the forum is treated similar to Facebook for some of the members, and they have to stick their nose in all of the "action". Even if they don't know, but they can change the oil, change the plugs, install a new fuel filter, and claim they did a proper coolant flush.

For the Senior Member's... Maybe they can't figure out why some one just asked, if anyone has ever removed the H-box,(for the billionth time) and if it's essential to good performance.

It's hard to know for some of the NOOB's, with ZERO mechanical experience. Obviously there is a lot of shit on here that can lead some people to think they need to "go big or go home"


Nothing about this post is meant to be militias what so ever.

I'm on this forum to learn.

I'm on this forum to help, if I can.


Not sure what the solution is.

Might just be a good reminder of PATIENCE.

 

I'm sure you've all been waiting for, the NOOB, from Utah, to chime in....

I too was a NOOB August 2013, I learned along the way and this form was invaluable. We all have to start somewhere. Post a lot of photos and you will get suggestions sometimes when you do not even think you need them. Couple of times Murray noticed in a photo I posted that show something that I needed to fix or take the time to check.

Good Luck on your bike

Mike

Just up 1-80 from you

 

so first the affirmation

i think the cx500 and its 650 brothers are the greatest bikes around

the 500 is one of the longest lasting motors and impossible without being silly to kill

there are a lot of examples of them being dug out of barns and 10s of thousands of miles put on them

most of us have barn finds we have cleaned the carbs changed the oil done a high miles service jumped on

them and driven the crap out of the for years

here is the rant

there are some nice newer members on the forum who are from the "lets take it all apart and put everything new into the motor so i wont have problem later"

school

now while that is fine if they feel they need to do this they are welcome to but i just got off the phone with a new member from utah who can chip in if he wants

that was going to ship me hos motor for me to go thru

i asked hom how many miles 20k says he

does it make any noises nope says he

how does it run good says he

why are you sending it to me


cuz people on the forum tell him he should tear it all apart and go thru everything

so i tell him his motor might need a triple he says he has already done the mech seal and is going to adjust the timimg chain

i gently (and no offense here) told him that the people telling him it needed a complete tear down were also new to cxs and in fact while there

were quite a few that have there motors completely torn down NONE HAVE YET TO GET THEM BACK TO A RUNNING STATE

now while i have no doubts in the skills of these people and some of the i have been helping

it belies why we all love our cxs to think they need complete tear downs and inspections at low miles

do teh service work get on them and ride!!!

now the advice to all

read the posts of people that you think you need to take direction and advice from its like any other kind of shopping look around

see what they have done how long they have been doing it and if it has been successful

LOOK AT THE NUMBER OF POSTS a person has you may not want to listen to someone as adeptly that only has 3 posts over someone like blindstitch

that has almost 15k

last of all to new members

we at this forum think these bikes are awesome and we want to help anyone in teh world keep it running and we will all tell you that even though you dont know what

a crank shaft looks like you can overhaul your motor your self

now while that may be possible i can say it is not always true

so research everything before you start ask tons of questions read some more

then make sure its something you want to tackle and that you feel you have a high probability of doing

i but 3-7 bikes a year off the forum that are apart some thing broken and the whole project abandoned by over reaching

there are any members here who will even come help all you have to do is ask

so if you are not sure you can rebuild your brakes DONT DO IT ask for more help or get it done for you

all right i will shut up now !!\\

let the bashing begin

FLAME ON!

I've learned that lesson! After tearing apart my dads briggs and stratton from his tiller. My buddies and I were going to "soup it up", and put it on a tote got frame we found. I can guarantee that motor may have only needed the carbs rinsed out. Nothing more.

 

Guys. These bikes are simple well designed beasties.

Diagnose first, then fix the problem.

Typically, after a long rest. These bikes only need a few things adjusted, cleaned and replaced. Such as (but not limited to )........just follow the high mileage maintenance service in the FSM. It'll take you through just about everything. Remember, check the date codes on them old rubbers. Any 3 digit code is garbage. Any four digit code lower than ##09 is up for replacement.

My CX500C was a wrecked rough runner when I bought it in 2011 with 39,000 miles. It had sat for about 5 years. All it needed was coolant, oil/filter, air filter, valve adjust, plugs, carb clean/sync to make it run. Other problems began to pop up that were diagnosed and solved. Coils, mechanical seal, odd ball electrical gremlins, CDI (replace with Andy62 unit), tires, brakes, clutch, wheel bearing...... mechanical stuff. Then in 2013, I repaired the remaining cosmetic damage. I bought this horse for $850, spent another $800. Now, it runs and looks showroom new.

Never did open the engine. Bike now has 45,000 miles. Its approaching "middle age".

In short, Murray is right on target. Diagnose first, then fix/repair or replace as needed. Ride. Ride. Ride.
Don't assume because the bike is 30+ years old with 20,000 miles that it needs a complete gutting tear down to be a good ride. It may just need minor work.

 

Topman Murray... ditto

 

OK, here goes.....first off, the guy who pays the price for his bike is in charge of it's destiny period, no matter how much anyone here may think of what he is doing to with it. It's his or hers to restore, ride or scrap. Once we get over that part of the problem it's all downhill from there. IF they wish our help in any form and ask the questions, we help in the best way we can. Some of us are age old tinkerers and can't leave things alone and modify every mechanical item they buy until there is nothing left they want to do( I fall into this category) and then there is the group who simple add fuel and ride until it stops....neither is the wrong way to do things. Remember it's their bike, their wallet, their fun to ride, repair or destroy what they bought. Do I agree with it, no, but I accept it. I have been through the wringer with KLR650's. I am the same as Murray with these machines in the KLR world. But I have given up helping because for all the bickering between the so called gurus and people who build a single bike and think they know everything when they do not...some do, most do not. I'm sure Murray knows the feeling well. I know where he is coming from with his RANT, but as I sit on the outside in this CX500 world I see his love and frustration and his semi tunnel vision that all CX's must be saved so to speak etc. I had the same sort of tunnel vision with KLRs. Now I couldn't give two turds what you do, just do it and enjoy whatever it is you do....It took me 7 years to realize this.....it's not mine or my destiny to solve the problem Murray is faced with. But I understand his frustration.
I'm in the school of you buy a bike, you research it, you look at it, you find out it's weaknesses, what others have done, what the guru's say to do, then decide what your indented use is for YOUR bike is. Now, it's up to you how far you take the teardown proceedure will be. Personally being a long distance rider that rides to very remote locations where help is hours if not days away, I basically tear every nut and bolt apart and start again, plus that is what I enjoy doing. Every time I get a new project, it gets the same systematic rebuild. That is how I do it. I then know without a doubt it will or lets say it should carry my sorry ass there and back without an issue. Is it the best way for everyone, no! It's MY way. It's also many other people's way also. Just because it's NOT YOUR way doesn't mean it's the wrong way. Again it's their bike, so we or you help them get the answers they ask for and allow them to do it their way....period. IF you can't handle it you move on, just as I did with the KLRs, you'll sleep better....lol.
The biggest thing most do not know about this machine is, you can't easily buy pistons and rings like you can for every other engine from a collection of piston manufacturers simply because of the twisted design of the heads. Sure they are obtainable but not easily. Sure some of us have found ingenious ways to get arond this but for the regular joe who has built up that dirt bike when younger by simply reboring and slapping in the next sized piston and rings, it isn't possible as easily. I found this out. I have spent thousands on my build, I always do and do not begrudge it, it's how I personally do things. But some do not have the funds to do it my way and run out of funds and are forced to give in as Murray states. Those should be who you direct your RANT at, not the general membership IMHO. This bike IF you get into the innerds to the piston location will cost you more than you may think. More than a simple engine would.
Just because an engine only has 20,000miles on it as you point out doesn't mean it's still in showroom condition internally, there are many things that unless you have owned and maintained or not maintained it from new you know jack shit about it. You need to go through the dyagnostic testing to see what you have just bought IF it is showing any signs of not being in showroom condition after your first 100 miles down the road...so to speak. Then you have the 118,000 km bikes like the one I bought that need far more......common sense should tell you that a bike with 118,000 kms will need possibly more work to get to showroom condition than the 20,000mile bike will. UNless again you have maintained it from new.

So, for god's sake relax, take a breath, help when asked, don't help when asked, BUT, just realize it's their bike, their choice and their wallet to empty IF they so choose to. I will help anyone who asks for my help. I will also not help anyone who upsets me and causes me to loose sleep....but that's just me.......There is always more than one way to do things and your way may not be the right way in their minds and you will never force someone to agree if they do not see it your way.

Sorry I posted.....now carry on.......OH, this was not a slight on Murray in the slightest or any type of offense intended towards him at all.....just my opinion on what is the right thing to do ........

 

I guess I fall somewhere between Murray and Willys. And I still consider myself a noob here.
My first CX came off the showroom floor in 78. I did nothing but ride and maintain it until I sold it in the early 80's. Loved that bike. Did not ride for nearly 30 years. Last spring I got a GL500I in great running condition. I asked questions (many basic/stupid) downloaded the FSM and did the high mileage service work. Rode it up until Nov. with no problems.

Last fall I bought a $500 project Gl500. Knowing it needed a ton of work to make it SAFE to ride for my son. Secondly I looked at it as a learning experience for when my daily rider w/ 35k on the clock eventually needs a triple/quad. The first thing I found on the project was a bad mechanical seal just by draining the oil. I elected to do a triple, and I glad I did. The chain and tensioners were shot. The stator may still have been good but looked like shit.

Right now the bike is coming back together as funds allow. Is it going to be done tomorrow hell no, but it runs and it is getting there slowly. Have I done stupid things, sure. I was even chastised (gently) once by Murray for being stupid. In general this forum as saved my butt and wallet more than once. I'm learning a great deal about the CX/GL family (tough at my age) and trying to be helpful in a courteous manner when I can. If I have nothing valuable to add I try to keep my yap shut.

 

I agree completly with most of this thread. I am no expert nor a noob but I have made my mistakes and this forum is a godsend. People just need to know the difference between knowledge and assumption and research,research! RESEARCH! Recently I had a problem with the mech seal weeping. I of coarse spazzed out started looking for parts. Then I calmed down and logged on and mentioned my problem and got a simple explanation. "Some times it weeps when sitting for periods of time. Just to keep riding it but closely monitor it." I have and it stopped weeping and she rides great still. I'm well over due for a full bypass at 45000 but if it ain't broke don't fix it. IMO it's really all about the one thing you cant buy,common sense...

 

Gee Murray, now you've got me wondering if I should pull the engine to do the camchain this summer or just leave it until it starts to sound funny.

Except that my case is kind of unique: I drive this bike to work every day in the winter and I would really prefer to not have to drop the engine to fix it when it is -20c outside with a couple of feet of snow drifted up in front of the shed where the other bike is hibernating for the winter.

But the stator (from a GL1100) & mechanical seal (replaced a couple of years ago) are OK (they came from the old engine along with the rear cover and a few other bits & pieces) and the starter clutch was new when I put this engine in last year. And from measuring the length of a few links under tension, the "new" engine's camchain looked less worn than the one I put in the original engine 5 years earlier. http://cx500forum.com/forum/general-discussion/24047-eccles-lives.html

So maybe I will let it go another year before I drop the engine and go at.

Or maybe not.

Decisions, decisions. I mean, I really do enjoy The Sport Of Wrenching, but on the other hand if I don't drop the engine this year I can do a lot of other stuff instead....:indecisiveness:

 

Gee Murray, now you've got me wondering if I should pull the engine to do the camchain this summer or just leave it until it starts to sound funny.

Except that my case is kind of unique: I drive this bike to work every day in the winter and I would really prefer to not have to drop the engine to fix it when it is -20c outside with a couple of feet of snow drifted up in front of the shed where the other bike is hibernating for the winter...

So maybe I will let it go another year before I drop the engine and go at.

Or maybe not.

Bob,

Have you been able to check wear through the timing port? And have you noted the rate of wear recently? I just dropped the Grub's engine for a triple bypass this winter, and was surprised to find very little change in the chain since it was last opened 7 years and 14,000 miles ago. (I did not replace the chain at that time.) I attribute it to regular (yearly) adjustment.


R

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=947135291963745&set=gm.956764911009552&type=1

lol

 

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